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One to avoid - Scammer Paul728

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by AdamD, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Known emails - welovereed@gmail.com and onlinepay@hush.com

    Known aliases - Paul Flemming, William Leach and Cynthia Snyder.

    Profile here - http://extralicense.com/members/paul728.494/

    This scammer contacted me to say he was selling his Invision board license for $55, sent me a screenshot of it
    I paid, license was never delivered
    He's also scammed another member here. (JohnB)

    Paypal of course won't get involved, but thankfully my credit card company will be, I have to issue a chargeback 30 days after the transaction, which will be nearish December 25th.

    So avoid like the plague
     
  2. NellyD

    NellyD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Thanks for sharing. I think one of these names tried selling me a license too. However, I always check with the companies or ask people to have the developers send me an email before I buy, so I spotted it quickly as no emails came in :)
     
  3. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Chargeback was successfully filed today, I had to wait 30 days, but they were more than happy to start the process.
    Have to fill out a form or two, then submit it, process takes upto 21 days.
     
  4. NellyD

    NellyD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    The problem with chargebacks is that Paypal basically tells you: If you file a chargeback, then your account will be closed, which is not an option for me for example. If you rely on Paypal you will forget the chargeback option quickly (sadly) :)

    However, good thing you got your money back!

    Nelly
     
  5. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Not having Paypal is no loss, lol

    It's ironic though, that they'd close the account of a victim, but not the scammer.
     
  6. NellyD

    NellyD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Yes, it sucks the way they work. Sadly I cannot say that is's no loss to not have an account with them. I collect a few thousands of Dollars every month from people who do not want to use any other service. Reason: They have never been scammed by people and think that Paypal is safe, so they prefer it over a credit card payment or over "annoying wire transfers". So sometimes you simply have no choice. For me it means that I either would lose business or the amount someone scams me for. I agree that Paypal does suck. 100% on your side :)
     
  7. JackPH

    JackPH Active Member

    Local Time:
    1:28 AM
    how can Paypal know who is the scammer and who is the victim? This is "he said, she said" case and it's hard to prove for digital products. If you charge back with your credit card company, your account will be closed. It's not wise to do so. And you can't blame paypal for this because you have accepted their terms and agreement when signed up for your paypal account. All disputes must be solved through Paypal.

    Scammers can not live long with Paypal if they receive several chargebacks/disputes. Paypal will limit their accounts very soon after few chargebacks and flag them as high risk accounts. Surely they will deny their appeal to restore the account limitation.
     
  8. NellyD

    NellyD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    The problem with paypal is different. Scammers just open a new account for each transaction. They do not care about their account getting closed, as they calculate that within their scam. They simply setup an account without verifying it, do their scam up to the limit before they need to verify the account and once they receive money, they instantly spend it on goods or use the scammed funds to transfer it to additional accounts so the money is no longer in the scammers account. The scammers are not stupid, they do not verifgy their account or add a bank account to get the money.

    They just use so called one time accounts for each scam, and once any money comes, they use the money and don't use that paypal account again. That said, they do not care about limited accounts or anything - simply because their accounts have no credit card or bank account connected to them, so they don't care about disputes as they know that if a scammed person complains, paypal will not be able to recover the lost money.

    I submitted about 30-40 disputes to Paypal when I got scammed within the last few years. It was each time the same: Paypal refunds a few cents and tell me "We were not able to recover more than 0.01 cents from the account in question - We will monitor this account and if new funds become available, we will credit your account". However, this NEVER happens, as the scammers just use one account per scam and run, meaning you will never receive your lost funds sadly.

    Just thought I'd post this as this so more people know about how "safe and secure" paypal really is.
     
  9. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    In my case, it'd be very easy to prove I'm the victim, I provided evidence of that and the contact details of Invision Board to prove what I said
    But they just don't want to deal with anything virtual, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit by and let someone scam me for money, just because they won't lift a finger to help
    The chargeback means the scammer's balance will go into the negatives, not Paypals, he/she will then have to pay paypal, or they'll register it as a debt with debt collectors.
    At least, that's what I've read about chargebacks and paypal.
     
  10. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Got the dispute documentation through this morning, filled it in, enclosed evidence and sent it off.
     
  11. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    "We were notified by your credit card company that you filed a chargeback against this transaction. We understand that the reason for the chargeback is that you never received the goods or services you purchased from the seller. No further action is required by you at this time. If you have reconsidered and would like to cancel this chargeback, please click the Cancel Chargeback button below to begin the process of cancelling this chargeback."

    Guess we'll see how it goes.
     
  12. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    He/she/it had 10 days to reply.
     
  13. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    I "think" I won ;)


     
  14. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Yep, looks like I won, I see the reversal on my credit card statement.

    25/11/2012 04/01/2013 PURCHASE ADJUSTMENT £35.40
     
  15. Dan

    Dan Admin Staff Member

    Local Time:
    12:28 PM
    Nice!!
     
  16. NellyD

    NellyD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    I received a note from Paypal also, just that the outcome is different:

    I contacted them again and they told me that if I file a chargeback using my credit card company, they would have to freeze my account because they are not able to rule in my favor and by issuing a chargeback I would basically make them lose money, which would be a reason to freeze my account until I cover their losses.

    While it was just a few Dollars (35 or so as I only paid 50% up front) I would not do the chargeback as it would hurt my business not being able to accept Paypal.
     
  17. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Well, they haven't closed my account
    From memory, if a chargeback occurs, they take it from the scammers paypal account or bank.
     
  18. NellyD

    NellyD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Paypal is like a lottery. Sometimes you are lucky, most times you are not. Their way to solve things is simple: If they can recover the funds, they will help you. If they cannot recover the funds, they will make threats like closing your account. So the math is simple like programming: IF Paypal can recover funds without making losses, then you win the case. ELSE you will lose the case if the scammer has no bank / credit card etc attached to his account and has spent the scammed money.

    Most scammers just open an account and scam until they reach the limit of the unverified account, which is about 2000 USD I think (1500 Euros). They will not go over the limit so they don't have to verify their account. They use the scammed money by either spending it right away or by transferring it to another account that does not seem to look like theirs - many times they even create multiple accounts and move the money far away. Paypal won't go and investigate further as it costs them too much money.

    So technically speaking: you simply win your case if they can recover funds, and if they cannot, they will just say no and close your account if you do the chargeback via credit card company.

    Why I know how this works? My husband is a lawyer and deals with Paypal fraud every day. He knows that company in and out because of the hundreds of cases he deals with every year. If you have a close look at these cases, you can easily spot how Paypal really works.

    Anyways, I am glad at least someone got his money back! Nice job :)
     
  19. AdamD

    AdamD New Member

    Local Time:
    6:28 PM
    Hi Nelly

    Thanks for the insight.

    You'd think that Paypal would go after the scammer for lost funds, rather than punishing the loyal customer

    The debt should be passed onto the scammer, but I guess it's easier and cheaper, just to threaten and close loyal customer accounts.
     

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